Dylan Johnson Take on TR

Have you guys watched the video? Whats you take? Also FasCat plans are packed with SS why not go with Polarized ?

Long ago I trained with the polarized method for 2 seasons , trained my arse off > 20+ hour per week and did so so. But when I invented sweet spot training - that’s when I started winning Pro 1/2 criteriums and time trials.

I explained the background in the 2018 podcast here:

I will say as everybody keep’s pointing to the science and the research**, we’ll we’re pointing to 20 years of experience coaching athletes prescribing sweet spot and analyzing their power output and ultimately performance .

I used to be scientist too :nerd_face:

If you have 18-20+ hours you could try polarized but if you only have 8-12 hours to train each week, I’d go with sweet spot every single time. Even the pro’s sweet spot tho and I have experience coaching World Tour rides like Phil Gaimon as well as being a Director for US National Team. When pro’s goto pre-race training camps and test each other, guess what they are doing? uh-huh.

But don’t just ‘sweet spot train’ - the way we prescribe it includes switching from base to race and doing full gas zone 4, 5, & 6 intervals. Lots of them that are specific to the style of racing you are training for.

For you @kamilkurylo that means your criterium interval plan. But in order for that plan to be the most effective you want to build as big of a base as you have time for with what I suggest is our sweet spot plans

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From someone who has done periodization, TR for multiple years (high volume and mid volume) and FasCat plans Dylan’s main objective wasn’t really the SS. He even said SS has its place and he saw the most increase in himself targeting z1 and z2 (3 zone scale). His problem was with the amount of intensity TR prescribes. Which is why I moved to FasCat. On the high volume (8-12 hours) you SS 5 days a week and go for 5 weeks before a rest week. That is not what FasCat prescribes at all. In Dylan’s video the science showed 2-3 intensity days at most which is what FasCat has in their plans. Although the FasCat plans don’t adhere to a strict periodization protocol it does line up with the science illustrated in the video.

P.S. Every year that I did TR I could never complete a crit season and then carry fitness to a CX season. I would be toast about 1/2 way through the crit season and just coast my way in or have to take a big break.

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Agree with this.

  1. My understanding of the video was that it wasn’t sweet-spot that DJ takes issue with but the application of sweetspot by TR: he goes on to support the use of pyramidal training which is how my Fascat SSB weeks tend to end up.

  2. I have found way too much intensity in TR plans. I made great gains right up until I stopped wanting to ride my bike or get on the turbo- infact I hated it hence looking for something different and finding Fascat plans.

  3. Fair play @FRANK et al for not commenting on TR or the video directly. (S**t, I’m sounding like a fan boy!) Personally, Ill never buy a Dylan Jonson template/service as slamming another coach whilst chasing video watches/likes and advert income doesn’t sit right for me; I’m pleased Fascat as an organisation don’t feel the need to operate in this way and would rather spend my money with these guys.

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Some of the most pointed at studies are simply researchers looking at what athletes/coaches have done to get fast. After realizing that, I tried one of Frank’s plans, got better results versus TR, and then doubled down and hired Coach Isaiah. Best cycling decision I’ve ever made.

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I switched to FasCat from TR for the same reason: too much intensity. I was raising my FTP but didn’t feel like I was getting a good base. While doing some research I started listening to the FasCat podcast and reading the Cyclists Training Bible. It all made too much more sense to me to train this way. I also, like many, greatly prefer to train outside, and the TR plans just didn’t translate as well to outside rides. Especially on the weekends. Spending sunny weekends on my bike on the road instead of the trainer was such a nice change. It’s so much better to be able to FTFP while still being able to have fun.

I greatly prefer the holistic approach (and proven success) of FasCat. I’m riding more hours, having more fun and feeling overall stronger and faster.

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Yea I struggled with TR’s intensity as well, burnt out on the low volume 3 days per week plan and felt too tired to perform well at races. Switched over to Fascat and I’m killing it 5 days per week. I feel stronger and more capable than ever.

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Glad to hear I’m not alone. Started on TrainerRoad at the beginning of the pandemic and burned out on the intensity and inability to finish some of the workouts. Finally, I got to the point where I would dial down the intensity on every THR+ ride — and five weeks without a rest week did me in. I would skip their structured rides for outdoor unstructured road, gravel, and MTB rides to keep my liking biking. I wasn’t FTFPing.

Maybe my biggest issue with TR is that it doesn’t encourage long outdoor rides. While I’m confined to the indoor trainer during the midweek due to work, I love the ability in Fascat to FTFP and go out on the weekends and hammer out 3 or 4+ hour rides. While I don’t know all the science, I’m convinced certain types of adaptation only occurs after more than 3 or 4 hours in the saddle. My experience with Fascat is I can now maintain a higher intensity factor for a longer duration - thanks Frank.

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I am another TR refugee. I did the mid volume SS plan last year on the trainer after I broke my hand. I got some quick gains, but felt like I plateaued after 5 or 6 weeks from over training.

If I had to do the TR plan again I would sub the Sunday intervals for an easy Z2 ride.

I am SO glad I’m with Fascat now. Can’t wait for the cross season!

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Judging by the announcement they’ve just made in their Podcast regarding “Adaptive Training” I can’t help but to wonder if the whole ordeal with DJ’s video wasn’t a marketing ploy.

Edit: I should add I am a long-time TR subscriber.

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I made this for the tin foil hat club…

image

Which I think is totally craziness, BTW.

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I did worry I was a bit cynical for wondering the same. .

I was thinking the same about Dylan and TR