Diabolical workouts

You are not kidding when you call something diabolical haha. Today I attempted the 3x15 at threshold with z6 surges. I may have been a little tired but I could not come close to hitting the z6 targets, would fade back to threshold after like 30 sec and almost blow up for the rest of the threshold. Ouch! I don’t know, maybe if I were totally fresh. My 1 min power has been lacking for a while though too.


They are next level workouts for sure and are designed to really push you.
Make sure you are staying controlled on the threshold as that will add up fast if you push it.
Keep at it!:muscle:


@ryanolson - check your “TSB” from the PMC Charts and see if any of these recovery tips don’t help.

Thanks @FRANK , in hindsight I likely over did it over the weekend. Legs were still sore for this and was in a deeper hole the next day. And I had 2 bad sleeps in a row for some reason.

I mess up every once in a while it seems :wink: Should have likely just did an easy ride.

@FRANK @Isaiah Just completed my 1st diabolical workout. I’m finishing up the intermediate 18 wks of SS. The first interval went really well. Felt easy. HOWEVER, for the 5" recovery, I did not ride the prescribed Z2 effort; rather Z1. The 2nd effort. I hit the numbers, except the last 1" was a little low and my RPE for the last 5" was MUCH higher. Did I miss some of the stimulus by riding in Z1? Is this part of teaching the body to buffer lactic acid?

Next question: Thursday’s rides have been difficult for me to accomplish. Mostly because I work on my feet on cement 10 hours. (RN). Some weeks I have moved Thursday’s ride to Friday. What do you think about adding Thursday workout to Saturday’s Attack Interval-esque Group ride? Obviously I won’t be riding with a group on Saturday. This week it seems unlikely I will have time (work) to get in the Thursday ride on Friday as I have done in the past. I should also mention I added 30 minutes of Z2 to today’s ride as my work days look pretty long. Thanks in advance.

@jyaeso - these are hard workouts no doubt. There is no wondering if you did them right or wrong (z1 v z2) you just gotta grit your teeth, bite the stem put your mind to ‘it’ and #FtFP. If you don’t succeed the first time, try again.

We’d be happy to analyze your data and this ride in particular to try to answer the question better if you want to take out a coaching subscription:

That would also include us going into your TP to help revise your plan for your second question, I honestly have a hard time answering scheduling questions unless I have the ability to looking at your plan to see what you are talking about. To answer your question, tho, I think so, but don’t know until I’d be able to see what workouts and rides you are talking about moving around.

Sorry couldn’t be more helpful - good luck with your training!

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Yeah I did the 5 on 5 off times 3 yesterday and these workouts going back and forth between anaerobic and threshold is so rough. For me it was 30s at 700w, drop to 400 for 4 min then another 30s at 700. After only 5 mins rest it was impossible to repeat, especially the 3rd time. The 30s bursts really put you over your limits. By the 3rd rep I can still get the HR up but 400 became 350 and 700 became 500 but I guess the energy system is still getting taxed.

Perhaps it is just my lack of high end at the moment.

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You don’t really need to explain your ‘performance’ of a workout because yea, they are hard. If it were easy everyone would be doing it. This is your edge tho. Thus the ‘Cry in the DoJo’ mantra to ‘laugh on the battlefield’.

Difficulty during a workout (especially the diabolical ones) is desirable - keep pushing, keep moving forward knowing that what you are doing is helping you ‘get faster’ and reach your goals.

Reminds me of one of my favorite SNL skits:


@FRANK so my thoughts to extend the rest to say 7-10 mins to get more consistent intervals would go against the spirit of the workout?

Ryan, my thoughts on the matter are don’t over think it just get out there and smash it as hard as you can and rest as the plan says, then go as hard as you can again!!! Remember this, in a race your competition won’t wait for you to fully recover before attacking you again!!!

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No , follow the plan exactly as we have designed it #FtFP

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I had to see if anyone struggled with these as much as I did. I am also in the very end of 18 weeks with spot.Had a diabolical workout last week and one this morning. Generally have been pretty successful at hitting ranges throughout the 18 weeks but these were extremely difficult.I am glad to see in this forum that others found them next level as well.


If someone doesn’t struggle with these then their FTP is set way lower than it should be! When @FRANK calls it diabolical you can bet it’s going to kick your a$$! :slight_smile: