Indoor vs Outdoor

Training With Power
#1

Hi fellow Riders and Fascat

I would kindly request some clarification if possible about the indoor and outdoor FTfP.
I am 100% restricted to cycling indoor on my Kickr.
By browsing the forum I understand that the TSS accumulated outdoor is greater for the same amount of time riding indoors.
My TSS is part of the SS training 1, 2 and 3.
My weekend plan is a 3 hr and a 2 hr ride SS
As you note today 26/2 before my 3 HR ride already the fatigue is ATL on 93

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can you please advise me if I am working out correctly or I am missing out on some key elements?

Many thanks
Lucsi

#2

Hi All
Just wondering why I do not get even a simple response?
I do not think I asked to much technical question endangering to a move to a one to one coaching.
I saw far more in-depth requests than my question

I think I listened to coaches as now I am using the official tool TrainingPeaks but still I am not lucky enough for a response
It is strange to me but maybe normal for others

Best regards

#3

Hey Lucsi
We have to trust the training plans.
Your TSB is good for training.
I’m sure someone will get back to you after weekend. Sundays can be busy for everyone :+1:

#4

Yes, thank you for the answer. I will wait

Best Regards
Lucsi

#5

Hi Lucsi,

What workout did you do that had 235 TSS? The highest planned TSS I have had on the SS plan is 192 for a 3 hour ride. I would look at that workout and see what the planned TSS was and why you registered 235 for it. Note that your graph shows your predicted CTL declining over time from the point you showed. I don’t think this has anything to do with indoor vs outdoor.

#6

Hi Theodore
Thank you for the reply
Indeed was a big one I felt exhausted after it still feeling it
It was a Sweet Spot Group Ride 3:00:00 Hr

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I have no option of outside ride only 100% indoor

The plan was as follow:

“Sweet Spottin’ with a Group Ride or Solo
-
Don’t worry about intervals today rather use the group to push you for a sweet spot effort. In other words, take pulls on the front @ Sweet Spot.
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Hold wheels (riding with stronger riders)
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Use the terrain to modulate your power in the sweet spot
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You can also ride out in the wind (not tucked in a draft) to achieve sweet spot
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Take Sweet Spot Pulls
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Its OK if your power and HR is above or below Sweet Spot for short periods of time (< 60 seconds). What’s most important is Normalized Power for entire group ride or length of time the group got going
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Think in terms of 20- 60 minutes or more of a sustained effort in the sweet spot. You can ‘check’ how well you do by analyzing your power file and looking at the normalized power for the sections you rode at Sweet Spot.
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Overall this should be ‘moderately hard’ effort with a TSS ~ 130 and also fun. Lots of freedom & flexibility
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For more about Sweet Spotting during a group Ride, please read:”

My question was only for clarification if I do something wrong I did beat the time and effort but I do know now I am paying the consequences :slight_smile:

I noted also that my CTL not improving it is stale or declining and not because I do not try my utmost to follow the plan, maybe I am overreacting and I am not aware of that.

It is not the first time I txt to the forum and I thank you all for the support

Best Regards
Lucsi

#7

Hi
Do you think for my CTL to be increased should i swap to intermediate plan?
Pushing extra should increase my fitness?

The begining of my plan 11/1/2021

CTL= 51
ATL=60
TSB=-7

Today 1/3/2021

CTL=64
ATL=73
TSB=-19

Many thanks
Lucsi

#8

Hi Lucsi,
Just my observation, but 235 TSS is very high for only a 3 hour effort. Your intensity factor (IF) was 0.88. It means you were riding at close to 90% of your FTP for 3 hours. Normally the weekend SS rides don’t have any corresponding workout with target power. Did you create your own workout to follow? The workout notes indicate TSS should only be ~130.
I follow the intermediate plans, and for the weekend sweet spot group rides, I usually have an IF around 0.75 or 0.8 to reach the target TSS.
-Kyle

Edit:
Also, regarding CTL not improving: It has increased from 51 to 64 since early January. CTL is average TSS over 6 week period so it will not increase as quickly as ATL, which is one week average of TSS.

2 Likes
#9

Yes, I did create it myself on trainingpeaks builder as I understood that was saying to ride SS like in front of a group and not sheltered.
I see my error now as a newbie on training with power. I am already dreading my next 3-hour workout :slight_smile:
Again, many thanks for your help. I will need to read further and educate myself further

Thank you for your kind input

Best Regards
Lucsi

#10

Hi Lucsi,

My first 3 hour ride in SS123 had an expected TSS of 192, so you are not that far off I don’t think. The workout calls for 20-60 minutes of SS and then the rest of the time in Zone 2. So you can choose how much time in SS, plus I think it is total time in the 3 hours, so you could do for example 6x10 with zone 2 in between if you want.

Also, when you build up your own workout, you should be able to see the expected TSS before you even do it?

Also, CTL is supposed to rise like 3-6 per week, so you would seem to be increasing ok.

Finally, note that your 2 and 3 hour rides in this case were the big buildup before your regeneration (50%) week.

#11

Hi
You absolutely right. Now it’s make more sense about the TrainingPeaks builder.
I truly appreciate your explanation and I thank you for your time
I will try to rebuild my next weeks 3 hr with more attention

Many thanks :pray:
Best regards
Lucsi

#12

It looks like Coach Jake wrote a whole blog post to answer your question, posted yesterday:

2 Likes
#13

Hi, Theodore This is great I am on it now.
Thank you very much and truly appreciate YOUR support it is very valuable

Best Regards
Lucsi