Hanging in and a little out

I believe that is a ‘friends’ quote… but the meaning is different here.

so I switched from a base training to a hill intervals plan and I have a pretty hard time to find my rhythm.

so I ended my base training with the FTP test and afterwards pushed a few days on to do a bit of an overload.
than I started the hillclimb plan and I didn’t do the FTP test, but a strong session with a similar ‘stress’. but apposed to the base plan, I feel like I am always one step behind and never really get a good feeling.
it isn’t the motivation, I can push through that. it is more that I do my workout with the new zones and manage to do it, but barely and without ever feeling good legs in the almost 3 weeks I am doing this.

am I missing something or will the ‘benefit’ only be felt when the plan is over? my fatigue is always bigger than my form in training peaks.

From my experience last year, I cruised through a few months of sweet spot, rarely ‘failing’ a workout and seeing a lot of improvement in my watts and also feeling on the bike. But then as soon as the first threshold or suprathreshold intervals started coming, I “failed” a few of those early ones, feeling like I couldn’t hang. I took a few easier days to fully recharge (even though that kind of stuff is built into the plans), and then really started crushing the workouts. I was able to do harder and harder intervals, feeling easier and easier. Towards the end of the “race” part of intervals, I was feeling great. So I guess from my experience I’d say "trust the training, and when you’re peaking, you’ll know it :slight_smile: " I’d also say don’t get down on yourself if you can only get through 2.5 intervals, for example. Just bank that training, know that it all contributes to your progress, and come back with more determination!


Hey @nikowla you could be feeling fatigued if you have not taken a rest week since week 4 of the climbing plan. It is also hard to say if you are going to hard or doing too much volume without having access to your PMC chart. If you could shoot a screen shot of that in here, that may help me to figure out if the fatigue is related to your training plan.

P.S. Form should never exceed -30. Anything between ~10 (after 2 days rest or so) to -29 while in a build is adequate to achieve training adaptations. Moreover, the value for fatigue is higher when you are training harder where as form will become negative.

I could try to type it all out, but this picture sums up CTL, ATL and TSB very well:

Hey, thank you both for the encouragement. I will try to figure out how to take a screenshot, but my form is minus, but 20 - 25 not 30 or more.
I think I have to get used to the load. I have a hard time and I want to feel ‘good legs’ once and awhile, but that hasn’t been the case.
The good news is that this week is a really hard week, but next week is the recovery week and I will hang in there and push on.
I also think I needed a couple more days recovery between the two plans to start fresh. This type of intensity or training is way different to what I used to do past years. But I am confident this is more beneficial.

Again thanks for the help. I am very grateful for the support

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I got behind the big screen computer and had a good look at my calendar and I did see that I have a hard time to get the two prescribed workouts in on weekends.

it has been inconsistent on my behalf and I have put myself in this situation I guess. but after looking at it a bit more I feel confident not to have done too much ‘damage’ and as hard as it is to do all the commuting, training and life, I think I will stick to the training a bit better to see more green in my schedule

hope the screenshot upload works

Notice how after that second week in the screenshot, your form is -32. That is low and a very good indicator that if you were to complete the rest of that weeks training that you would be pushing yourself too far.
Do you know the days that you will be commuting ahead of time?

yes I see that now… But I can not wrap my head around this as I didn’t do the Sunday 1h30 ride and the Saturday ride is 4h instead of the 5 planned.
I do commute to work and if I could I would do it 5 days a week, but 4 is more realistic. I have done it prior with the training and maybe it is too much. but the week prior I already felt the legs were not so good anymore and cut the commutes all out.
I have realised that this training plan is much harder than the base training plan.
I also hope that you can give me a golden tip on how I could do a training combined with a commute.

just sharing what I used to do when working from the office was still the norm. I’d do my workout on my way into work in the morning. I would plan the route so that I more or less end off just as I’m pulling up to the office. If the workout was longer I would take a detour into the office. Then when going home I would try stick to Zone 1 via the flattest, quickest & shortest route, this often doubled up as Active Recovery and just felt so good for the mental state not being stuck in traffic a sure winner right there.


Hey I understand that fully and yes I am willing to make an effort. But in winter or even spring, I get out of bed at 5;30 to do a 50min commute. I am looking at doing it, got to ftfp. And it would kill to birds with one stone.
The only thing I cannot get my head around is making the training turn green and do the blocks fully

This has been my experience this year as well. My body forgot how hard the hard intervals are!

Truly hard to say the exact cause without having access to your entire TP account, @nikowla.

The form of -32 would be what your form would have been if you had completed sundays workout, so a good call for not continuing to push. That number (form/TSB) compares how much you have trained recently compared to how much you have trained in the past. It also reflects your value for the next day, not that day (this way you can use it to predict your freshness for the following day). With that said, with yours being consistently negative that is a good sign that you are taking on much more of a training load than you have in the past and why you likely feel like you have heavy legs lately. Obviously you won’t always have fresh legs, but come tuesday for your intervals… you should feel pretty decent.

Also, if you were connecting SS P2 with the intervals plan, you should have moved the rest week in the interval plan up from week for to week 2 so that you stuck with the 3 weeks on 1 week off pattern that is important for recovery.

My presumption is that after the upcoming rest week you should start to feel “fresher.”

Hope that helps!

yes it ‘looked’ a lot of the same, but this is a step up for me. a good step.

I know what went wrong… I did too much too soon. in an ealier post I asked about doing a ‘overload week’ at the end of the SS period and that was beneficial. however, I did not take a FULL week of recovery and dove head first in the intervals. that combined with the 3weeks on, one week rest rhythm being off, is biting me now…
I can actually see that in my training now you are pointing it out Lacey. I hope I can learn to see what you see a bit better, as this scheduled training is hard for me, I have never done it before, that said I believe in it and I am confident that this will work for me. I started this to find a new motivation after a solid build last year. and 3 months in this year and I can only say that for me it is great. differently hard to what I have done on my own, but great. thanks!

if someone has tips to train and do the workouts on a commute and maybe not the best long open roads, please feel free to chime in as that is something I haven’t got my head wrapped around yet. I am looking at making a different route to and from work to see if I can make it longer but mostly more consistent.